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cruise (January 3rd, 2003, 8:11 pm)

I started a new thread for hits, as the other one was getting distracted :P

We need more "Related" type links...goodness knows there's tonnes of cool links out there, but related links are a bit thinner on the ground.

Please list any suggestions here...

I thought about elfwood, but I don't how good it's popular, I know, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Having never visited, I can't say.

Possibly razorart? Though it's really got no connection... :/ :P


Semirrahge (January 3rd, 2003, 11:42 pm)

_I_ think Megatokyo IS related.

Nuff Said.

Megatokyo... related... :?

Narainsbrain (January 4th, 2003, 4:05 am)

I don't browse much (read ANY) fiction online except for right here, so I can't help much... Maybe Greg Egan's site?

yah, good idea

Ben (January 5th, 2003, 8:53 pm)

Also my site. You could link to my site. :)

cruise (January 5th, 2003, 11:42 pm)

You can link to your've got the same access as any other member :P


Semirrahge (January 6th, 2003, 7:12 am)

DMOZ is l337... I got on there the other night and like to never dragged myself out... Are there any other info sites like that that are so well cross-linked?

Say, that's an idea!

Narainsbrain (January 6th, 2003, 2:30 pm)

I'll bet there are tons of Related links over at We should go and check one site out each or something...


cruise (January 6th, 2003, 8:37 pm)

Yeah, DMOZ is very coool...working on project to import it's XML into a DB, in case anyone is interested... :P

'course, you'll need a big's several Gb of data in total.


The letter 'R' seems approximately half-way down that listing...someone else start up from R, I'll go from 'A'...and if we get more volunteers, someone can start backwards from 'R' and 'Z' :P

You're what?

Narainsbrain (January 7th, 2003, 1:08 pm)

Three game mods, a DB project for DMOZ, writing for TsfE, and Sol knows what else... Dude, you're one happening guy. =)

I'll start from R and go down to Z... That means 'Robert J. Sawyer's "On Writing" Columns' today.

Tell me about it :P

cruise (January 7th, 2003, 5:10 pm)

Plus a full-time job, g/f, church, other friends...

Yeah, it's definitely happening :P

I've already added was pretty much it from my half, to be honest...though I may go and explore a bit more...

One down, fifteen to go =)

Narainsbrain (January 8th, 2003, 1:23 pm)

Yesterday I checked out RJS's 'On Writing' - it's pretty cool, it's got a dozen tutorials on SF writing (though many are on getting published and all that...) I'll add this to the related links.

By the way, are you going to implement editing links? Well, I can always delete and re-enter them, so it's not essential anymore...

Exactly :P

cruise (January 8th, 2003, 1:53 pm)

It was considerably easier...and it should fill in most of the values...if you delete a link, then it should pre-fill in the name and URL of the link you deleted, for easy editing/correction...same with adding...I figured it was near enough an edit feature as to not make much difference.

Another thing...

Semirrahge (January 8th, 2003, 10:41 pm)

GyrFalcon has developed a search page that has entry boxes for 17 search engines on different sites, including, Google,, and PC Webopedia.

I've gotten some ideas for enhancing it, but I thought maybe we could mirror/host the page here, since research is a HUGE part of writing.

Another thing...

Siedhr (January 9th, 2003, 6:28 am) i may be a little off with this, but i simply love that comic. I'll think of some more.

DOH! again

cruise (January 9th, 2003, 11:38 am)

Damn my memory :P Yes, definately Sluggy for the cool links...Sluggy Freelance rocks immensly. Must get the latest two books...

By the way...

Narainsbrain (January 9th, 2003, 2:11 pm)

The problem with the Related links does need to be fixed, you know... :p

Yeah, yeah :P

cruise (January 9th, 2003, 3:38 pm)

Seems to be working a bit better now...I think MySQL restarts the random seed value at the same point each page load, which obviously means the first call using it will be the same each time...

I now do a null call to it first, before generating the links...

It works, by George!

Narainsbrain (January 10th, 2003, 4:02 am)

The null call's a good idea. Though there really ought to be a less hacky way to do it ;) I finally saw Fables in the Related links.

You'd hope

cruise (January 10th, 2003, 12:55 pm)

But hey, it works...if I find out how it /should/ be done, I'll change it - until then, this will have to do :P


Narainsbrain (January 11th, 2003, 5:55 am)

Yeah, if it works, I got no problem... No more of bugging you. =p

Another one...

Semirrahge (January 11th, 2003, 4:10 pm)

I can't believe I never thought of it until now: Hatrack River, Orson Scott Card's home page. There's a lot of info on this site related to new writers; interviews and such, but "Uncle Orson's Writing Class" is the really powerful area.

He takes emails from anyone, and selects a few to answer. Currently he's up to 22 lessons, stretching from 1998 to 2002. Some of these are already known by us, but some will be good to read - and some things can never be learned well enough.

I think this needs to be featured promenently. Or something. :P

Another thing, How about I get a FAQ ready? Granted, it might take me a few years... Especially since I have to work out the format... Anyhow, it's something we need. This site is really confusing to new people.


Semirrahge (January 11th, 2003, 4:20 pm)

Forgot URLs. :) is the main page, and is the page for the writing class.

Heck, you can add links yourself

Narainsbrain (January 12th, 2003, 5:22 am)

...From the submissions area, and save us the trouble of having to think up a description. Notice we've talked of adding a lot of links, yet only two have actually been added. ;)

Btw, Cruise, on deleting a link, the name and URL appear in the form, but the description area is blank. I know, 'cause I just deleted Wanderer's link I'd added to the Cool list - um, he hardly has any content on his site, so...


Narainsbrain (January 12th, 2003, 5:27 am)

Sure, go ahead. Leave the layout to me, just write up all (or most) of the content.


cruise (January 13th, 2003, 2:30 pm)

I know about lack of description...if it really is a pain, I'll add it, but it will spam the hell out of your address bar having the full text passed in as a paramter (no, I can't use post, it's not a form...)

About the FAQ

Narainsbrain (January 14th, 2003, 5:11 am)

You know, on second thought, I think the About page (when it's finished) should be the place to handle any questions which would be frequently asked. Maybe I'll work an FAQ format into it. What are the FAQs required, anyway?

Cruise: No description will have to do then. I'll just have to mouseover and cache into wet memory before deleting, I guess.

The FAQ pt 2

Semirrahge (January 14th, 2003, 4:24 pm)

Um, mostly I guess I was thinking about the CSS schemes, and the thread orders.

Q: "What are some things that sets the TSFE website apart from hundreds of million other wannabe popular underground sites?"


1) We offer many CSS stylsheet schemes. Granted, this idea is not unique, but it's not really very common either. Besides, we have some schemes the likes of which you've never seen before.

2) Forum thread order. We offer Traditional (First (oldest) post first), and Reverse (newest post first) sort orders. This is very handy when you are tired of scrolling down pages of past posts in your favorite forum.

Q: "Why is this place so dead?"

A: Because YOU aren't a member.

Q: "How do I become a member?"

A: Depends on what you want to do. If you just want to have posting rights and access to the content, you just fill out the form and give us a username and password.

However, should you desire to share your advanced writing $ki11z0rz with us, you need to email either Cruise or Eldritch. We'll need to see a sample, of course - which can be posted in our "Feedback" forum, or just mailed to the aforementioned dudes.

Q: "What about a Bio, or likes and dislikes? When I signed up there was no long annoying quiz demanding my fathers uncles mothers sister's maiden name. You didn't even ask for my credit card!"

A: Yeah. Cool, hunh? See, we here at TSFE know about your long list of annoyances, so we try to keep membership info down to a "volunteer-only" basis. If you want to tell us your entire life history, or that you hate pickles cooked in horseradish water, just click "settings" on the navbar. You'll finde various sections, each with a small "edit" button. Click those buttons and fill out forms to your heart's content.

Incidentally, this is also where you change your CSS Scheme and Forum Thread order.

Q: "I have a really cool story almost done, and Cruise gave me writer status. How do I post it so you guys can tell me how good it is?"

A: Well, click "Submissions" on the navbar, and scroll to the bottom. You'll see a small link, "Submit" in the bottom right-hand corner. Click that, and there you are. Paste your text into the big box, and all the other things should be self-explanatory for such an experienced writer as yourself.

Q: "Ok, now what?"

A: What do you mean?

Q: "I've submitted my story, revised and tweaked it (it's REALLY awesome now!)... How do I get it into the 'zine?"

A: You'll see a "publish" link beside the date and comments. Click it.

Q: "What if I have a mystery story? Can I post it?"

A: No. TSFE is for Fantasy and Sci-Fi only. If your story is posted somewhere else, not SF&F, or maybe you just don't think it's good enough to publish, it goes into your Oeuvre. Here at TSFE, the collective nutcase has decided to use that twisted french word instead of Gallery or something simple like "Other Writings".

The submission process is the same, but after you submit, click the "archive" link. Once a story is put into your oeuvre, anyone can see it, whereas only writing members can see it if it's in the "submissions" area.

Q: "Oeurve?"

A: Oeuvre.

Q: "Why is it so hard to spell?"

A: It's french. I don't even think they know.

Q: "How in the sam hill am I supposed to say it?"


Um. I kinda got carried away there. Did I cover everything? :) Oh, and yeah. This is a different style for me. I tried to copy the sardonic sound of a lot of friendlier sites... But this style always falls flat. What I think is funny is just obtuse to everyone else. Ah well. Feel free to rephrase it all.


Siedhr (January 14th, 2003, 6:13 pm)

-what in the sam hill is CSS? not all visitors would know computer stuff (hint, hint).

-there should be a search engine, at least for the forum

-in the faq there should be a no-no section: no pornography, no etc. (in case they're not allowed)

-speaking of genre: only fantasy and SF? horror is not allowed?

-you mean any new story can get into the 'zine? there shouldn't be a selection process of sorts? a limited number per issue?

as for the rest i like and find funny.

SUGGESTION for the front page: there should be a nifty graphic IMO. make the site livelier (that's the woman in me speaking, we really need some courtains and flowers here, guys)


cruise (January 14th, 2003, 7:08 pm)

Wanderer's logo doesn't fuill you with joy? :P

There will be searches for stories by next issue...I guess a forum search would be doable too :P

Genre - yup, only sci-fi and fantasy. Though a lot of horror can be squeezed into one of those two (hence my current vampire story...)

The selection process is other writers' comments...if ain't very good, we'll tell you :P And if ever we get enough submissions for there to be too many, then we'll worry about it :P

And yeah,'s damn funny...I love it :P

oh, joy :)

Siedhr (January 14th, 2003, 7:11 pm)

the logo looks great, but there should be a bit more. I'm thinking something catchy for front page instead of a bunch of text. maybe a flash intro?

Egads, no!

Ben (January 14th, 2003, 9:33 pm)

But something a bit flashier (animated GIFs, maybe) could certainly be an option in one of the stylesheets.

Nice FAQ, incidentally -- maybe there could be more of a an emphaisis on the writing at the beginning, though, rather than the programming. =) (Also, I think the "Why is this site so dead?" question, while funny and a good segue, might end up discouraging some people from joining (and truth be told, it's a lot less dead than it once was). Oh, and we still need to label the Fiction and NonFiction sections on the front page; I think that was a major source of confusion for the first issue.)


Ben (January 14th, 2003, 9:35 pm)


How would I go about adding my site to the list of related links? And how would I go about uploading a CSS scheme, assuming I ever get one finished? (I may know how to code (sort of:) but I have no idea whatsoever how backend (eg uploading) works. =)

Going to be outvoted

cruise (January 14th, 2003, 9:37 pm)

I think no flash intros will be allowed by everyone else, I'm afraid Dana :P

Maybe we could do a "fun and funky" css scheme with lots of cool effects for those who are up to spec. Depends on how much time Narain has :P

I think Ben has a point on the FAQ...move the writing stuff first, and drop the "dead" question...funny, but perhaps not so hot psychologically :P


Siedhr (January 14th, 2003, 11:11 pm)

i'm not rooting for flash, just for some sort of cover. this is a 'zine right? like the screenshot for literary submissions on DA. looks good and it's catchy.

and for the love of god, what is CSS???????

and dead? it's not dead with me here, dammit. "frown"


cruise (January 15th, 2003, 12:37 am)

Actually, I hate the icons for prose :P But I see where you're coming from...however, if we were going to do that properly, we'd have to have a new image for each issue, illustrating something from one of the stories or something...I don't think we have anyone that good at art except Angelas, and I don't think she has the time...

CSS stands for Cascading Style-Sheets...but all you really need to know is its a very cool and pwoerful way of specifying the display and appearance of a web page. If you haven't already, go into your settings page, and click the top edit button, and play with the various themes. Each of those is done with just CSS...all the HTML is the same, but the style-sheet is different.

Neat, huh?

And no, it most certainly isn't dead :P Your posting frequency is admirable. Care to share a few comments on the stuff in the members only area ("submissions" in your menu) on one of your visits? :P


Semirrahge (January 15th, 2003, 8:36 am)

Hmm. Of course - I'm going to vote no, too - but... If we can do it so that one CSS bit has nasty-huge images that makes the browser slow to a crawl and causes your eyes to bleed with pain because some people like that, and leave it the same for my beloved ANSI scheme (yes, narain... Thank you everever so much. :) ) so that I can stay retro and odd... Then, SURE!

But, frankly siedhr, do you really want another or My major gripe with those sites is the overbloatedness of the HTML and graphics etc. It's buggier than a midnight in Louisiana. (Hey! I can do metaphor like that! Cool!

It takes me ten minutes to load the blasted front page. I can load "The Aye of Faith" (Our biggest thread) in less than one. And I can't read that thread in one day. :) And, don't forget that DA's forms don't work half the time.

Granted, a lot of that slowness is load, but more of it can be attributed to graphical bloat (stupid emoticons, animated avatars, DD and DA Prints thumbs...) I can't list them all.

/stop rant. Sorry :) DA is enough to make me swear sometimes (No, not really)... But gripe very very hard, yes. I like TSFE. It's beautiful, it's smooth and sleek. It looks like a BBS. *grin* And it's MINE.

Ok. Try to get back on track and end this hijaack.

FAQ: I'll work on it. Gimme a bit. I'm in a creative spurt and I'm too lazy to work on the stuff I should be. Do I really need to put a CSS description in?

Gimmie a more concise list of stuff I need to add.


* General about and heavier introduction

* Content advisory (Currently our no-no's are: Fanfiction, Sex/Pornography (granted, pr0n is hard to do with text, but might be good to keep in mind if we ever get a cover artist) and racism. I think we can allow language/violence, esp. since I have the gory story and siedhr, Ben and Gyroscope have stories with R-rated language. I do think we should warn for content at the beginning. Maybe make it so that we can just click a checkbox when we submit it.)

* do I need to expound on the review process?

* do I need tp explain the thought behind the image-less design of the site?

Coverart: Cool, yes - and I think I could handle that. But does the layout support it? Our index page is already nearly two pages long.

I'm too tired to go on. :) Aren't you glad.

I don't give up that easy. :P

Siedhr (January 15th, 2003, 11:14 am)

Cruise, I'll most definitely comment on the submissions. I'm a little slow at the time, due to a myriad of engagements, leftovers from my two weeks offline. i'm barely catching up, but as soon as I'm on time, I plan to concentrate my time here, because this site offers me more than DA(and the stories are good mostly-I'm so sick of the DA junk).

I very much like this scheme. it's easy to load and to follow. you misunderstood me. I didn't mean emoticons and graphic for every prose, just one for the 'zine, only one(not necessarily changing for every issue-although that sounds good to me) and clicking on that would take to the about page. that was my idea. guess i wasn't that clear. and semirrahge, i don't want another DA, believe me!

if you'd agree, i might try talking to some DA, graphic people or make a contest out of it (although I don't know about prizes, i can't personally afford to give any :( ) (and it would be a great publicity stunt, too-because the graphic must fit the style of the site and the content, as in simple, practical, stylish and good quality-not to mention overly big).

I'm annoying, aren't I? I promise this is my last post on the issue, i just realized I didn't explain myself that well. I would not trade the functionality of the site for a piece of coloured jpeg, really!

Drastic Idea

cruise (January 15th, 2003, 11:58 am)

Something that occured to me in the middle of all this...perhaps have two halves to the site?

One is the issue, the other is fora. So when you arrive, you have a cover page for the current issue, and a quick rundown of what is in it, like the cover of a book, and where the back of the book would be is the news/links to fora, etc.

I know it's a complete departure from what we have, but just figured I'd throw it out :P

OMG, all the posts!

Narainsbrain (January 15th, 2003, 12:26 pm)

That's gotta be a record for the most posts to a thread in one day, I say!

Ben: Add a link from the bottom right corner of the Submissions page, where it says, ugh, "Add Link". If you've done a CSS scheme (you should work from an existing one, since we've got all sorts of custom classes defined in the HTML), just mail it to Cruise, like I always do. The scheme will need icons to go along with it too, and making those is a toughie...

Cruise: If you wanted a new CSS scheme, why didn't you say so? I'll get right on it. Something bright and funky, with big red bells and whistles.

By the way, does no one know I do art also? Have I never mentioned it before? No, you haven't, dummy! Oh. Sorry. Okay, um... I... do... art... But I'm very slow at it... Then what good is that for us? Um, no good, I guess... So shut up! Okay...

But seriously, I could try cooking up a cover image for TsfE (unless Semi's already on it)... you mean like those splash pages that have only an image that you have to click on to get into the main page, right? It's always seemed redundant to me, but also pretty snazzy, if done well, so I could never form a clear opinion of it.

Blimey, I'm rambling.

Semi: That FAQ's real fun to read! =)

But I have to write a general background of the site into the About page, and it seems the contents of the two might overlap, so we'd have to work that out. Unfortunately, unlike you I'm in a creative slump right now, and can't seem to get anything down just right, so it might take me a while to do the About page.

The accursed deadline's drawing nearer every day...

Rnd. Title 333: "Writing haiku is so much fun/So spread the joy/Wherever you go"

Semirrahge (January 15th, 2003, 4:53 pm)

Heh, yeah. Majorly hot topic.

siedhr; Sorry... I'm very melodramatic. I did not mean to shut you up. Now that you've explained yourself better, I think that your idea has merit.

I think the contest idea has potential, guys... It falls right in line with me wanting an artist for my story-that-has-no-real-name-ATM. What kind of art do you do, Narain? Oh, and no offense, but I don't like Angelas' style - so I'd just as soon NOT have her do our covers. Maybe we could have an ongoing "contest" thing. Take the two or three of the most imaginative stories in this issue, and give DA artists a chance to turn out some work.

The "awards" would be recognition on DA, We could post a news/forum article on the new Issue; "Transference Issue 2 is out, featuring original coverart by prep (HA! Wouldn't THAT be cool. Or, fuzzydemon could do something for "Spera" :P) for whatever-my-story-is-named by Semirrahge."

Or something. I think it shows promise.


Siedhr (January 15th, 2003, 5:43 pm)

yeah, well, you're a big drama queen! I'll send you a pretty tiara for your birthday! "smirk"

i have some people on my devwatch (I'm saying this to widen the pool of options not to diss anyone) that are still unknown but do fabulous stuff. i'll do a little search and tell you what i come up with.

Okay, I added some links

Ben (January 15th, 2003, 9:20 pm)

Specifically my site (which has no name, so I entered something utterly ridiculous:) and the sites for Greg Egan and Asmov's Science Fiction.


Ben (January 15th, 2003, 9:20 pm)

I don't actually have a CSS scheme finished, but at some point I should get around to it.

Crazy idea...

Semirrahge (January 17th, 2003, 3:31 pm)

So it should fit right in. :P

What if we all pooled some cash... and sponsored a link on MT. ?

Think about it. He gets, what... 10000 hits/day? It's on the front page, in the news box. EVERYONE looks there.

I have no idea how much it costs, but I'll look into it if we think that might be a possibility.

Only thing is, I don't think we are ready for THAT much traffic. :)


cruise (January 17th, 2003, 8:28 pm)

We have very little content size wise, and the host allows us 400mb a day, so I think we'd need a hell of a lot of visits before we hit that :P

Of course we might kill the DB server, but hey :D


Narainsbrain (January 18th, 2003, 5:09 am)

Yeah. "Let's not get too popular, our server can't handle it!" =p

Btw, just so you know: I've started work on the 'zine front page. Finally figured out CSS positioning, though I had to download the whole W3C specification to do it =)


Siedhr (January 18th, 2003, 5:36 am)

great! good luck!

Traffic and CSSS

Hellkeepa (January 18th, 2003, 12:39 pm)


Trust me, we do NOT want to get to that point where nothing can handle the load: That is what happened the the CS fora, a number of times, and in the end we were "forced" to move into (what I like to call, along with many others) a shitty system; It was the only thing that could handle the load, but even now we're having doubts wether it actually does that all the time. :rolleyes:

As for CSS positioning: Now it's even more important than ever that you at least download Opera, preferably Mozilla and a couple of other browsers as well, to aid you in the process of building pages. IE has some VERY strange notions of how things are to be calculated, and the other browsers have their own bugs (none so many as IE though).

If you remember my cry for help about CC's front-page the above reason is exactly why I got a "huge" problem: It would show just fine in Opera, but IE borked it up BIG time!

Happy fraggin'!

Oh yeah

Narainsbrain (January 19th, 2003, 5:42 am)

I'm really sorry I didn't help out with that CC page, man, it totally slipped my mind. I have this AWFUL habit of looking into something and forgetting about it very soon after if it doesn't grab my interest... It's all-or-nothing with me. I suppose you must have done something with the page by now, so, um, what did you do with it?

To get back to TsfE issues, I'm testing on IE 6 and Opera 7. (The download-now button at Opera's site got me 7.0 beta. I dunno why they prefer to give everyone a beta instead of the last stable release. I'll go get v6.)

I really don't want to install the overbloated NS Communicator, and Mozilla's huge too. Does anyone know of a utility that can emulate old browsers for testing? That would be oh-so-wonderful.


cruise (January 19th, 2003, 1:11 pm)

I think is how it's spelt...based on the Gecko engine (same thing Mozilla uses), but stripped of everything but the basics....

I knew about K-Meleon

Narainsbrain (January 20th, 2003, 4:14 am)

I was thinking of getting that... But all plans are in the bin now, because I just saw what the page looked like in Opera 6.05.

Holy mother of cow, the divs were all over the place!

If Opera 6 can't get it right (I stuck to the W3C spec, and it works perfectly in both IE6 AND Opera 7, so don't talk to me about standards-compliance), then there's no hope. I'm going to recode the whole thing in tables.

Unless someone has an ethical issue with misuse of tables for things that aren't really tables, in which case I'm dropping the whole thing; let Issue Two look just like Issue One. Fine!

("You've got to excuse my pal here, he's a little ticked off 'cause he just had a great page blow up in his face. He'll be all right in a minute." ;) )


cruise (January 20th, 2003, 11:03 am)

I use Opera 6.05 as my day-today browser, and it's fine....I've never had a problem with TSFE at all.

Or do you mean the new slash page? In which case, possibly...though I've had more trouble with IE than Opera before.

I think for now, TABLE's, though sucky, are the only safe option for proper formatting and laying out. It's a shame, but there you go...least Opera are sorting things out in 7.

Yes, the splash page.

Narainsbrain (January 20th, 2003, 11:47 am)

And it was going so well, too. I had all the layout tucked away neatly in the CSS... Oh well, at least this way, the page will look good on almost any 4.0+ browser.

Are we talking about redoing the whole site in tables, or just the intro?

Ben (January 21st, 2003, 1:31 am)

If the former, then I'd definitely be opposed (and I'm tentatively opposed to the latter, too). One of the greatest things about this site is the ability to do cool things in CSS (and it loads much faster, too, for those of us on dial-up); I'm planning style sheet that uses the "Fixed" position attribute, for example -- it won't work in IE, but hey. Plus, a lot of Opera users have already switched to the 7 beta; Opera users are like that. :)

Ben (January 21st, 2003, 1:35 am)

I really don't want to install the overbloated NS Communicator, and Mozilla's huge too.

Don't bother with NS 4, it's not worth it. NS 7 and Mozilla both use the same engine as Pheonix, so you just need that.

(If you're having trouble with CSS positioning, feel free to email me some code; I might be able to help out.)

'tis a point

cruise (January 21st, 2003, 11:34 am)

How many users are going to be using Opera 6? except maybe Hellkeepa? :P

But I'd be curious as to what's broken, as when I played with CSS positioning, IE had more trouble than Opera.



Siedhr (January 21st, 2003, 1:41 pm)

i have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. "sigh"

and no, i don't really want an explanation, just felt like telling you this.


Semirrahge (January 21st, 2003, 4:53 pm)

Narain or whoever... There are a couple teeny bugs with the ANSI scheme (I use IE *checks* 5.00).

On the opening page, the inside horizontal dividers can't reach the right-hand border (the double-line). It leaves a gap of what appears to be 10-30 pixels.

Also, on any other page, I can get it if I shrink my window too small (I run 1280x1024, so small is maybe 800 pixels).

And, if I remember correctly, I get the first problem on the Submissions page, too. No matter what I do with my horzontal sizing, the gap stays.


Wanderer (January 21st, 2003, 8:55 pm)

Cruise said: "How many users are going to be using Opera 6? except maybe Hellkeepa?"

Me! Untill they release a full version of opera 7 anyway. I'm allready using O7 for some surfing (specially devart), but my main browser is still Opera6...


cruise (January 21st, 2003, 10:22 pm)

And me, of course, but I don't care :P

Siedhr: Don't worry 'bout it :P There'll be a lot of tech talk in this forum...for obviosu reasons///you can ignore us if you wish, we won't mind :P

One at a time...

Narainsbrain (January 22nd, 2003, 12:44 pm)

Ben: The whole site in tables? No way!! Tables are an instrument of the Dark Forces of Ignorance. I'm planning absolutely no changes to the main site.

The thing is, the main site layout is all CSS1, and any reasonable browser understands that. But my splash page layout is heavily dependent on positioning by CSS2, and on a browser that doesn't do CSS2 (which is to say, any browser that isn't the very latest), the page will - DOES - look horrific. It works on IE6 and Opera 7, but Opera 6 mangles all the positioning, and I think we can trust IE5 to do the same.

So, in order to avoid scaring visitors away at the very first page(!), I've decided that tables for the cover, and only the cover, are a neccessary evil. Unless we revert to something like the bland Issue One page... Besides, I've already recoded the cover in tables, it wasn't hard at all. =)

Siedhr: I'm a complete tech-head, I can't help myself... Just look at the previous paragraphs. =) Go ahead, ignore.

Semi: So you get a problem if you shrink the window? Then don't shrink it! =p I'd noticed the problem before, but I had no idea how to fix it, so I took the Microsoft strategy: I kept mum and hoped nobody would notice. :D Anyway... I really don't know why that happens. Maybe I'll twiddle the CSS around a bit later, but I'm feeling kinda lazy right now.

By the way, on the dA screenshot, you suggested I replace the spheres (they're circles!) with vertical lines. Like the Matrix, but with just dots. I think that's what you said. But what on earth did you mean??


Semirrahge (January 23rd, 2003, 4:10 pm)

I meant; use vertical scanlines, yes - but instead of using the Matrix glyphs (or something similar), just use tiny square dots. We don't want to obviously rip the Matrix, but... :)

I see something like this:

* *** ** ******
* ** * ** ***
** ** * *** *
* * ** ****
* * *** ***
* *** * *
* ** **
* **

Or something, so that the bottom "point" is off-center and to the left, and the narrowing is very irregular.

Picky picky. :P

Edit by Narain: Added [pre] tags so the post looks the way it's actually supposed to. =p

Edit again: Darn it, it never looks right! Should work this time.

I'll think about it

Narainsbrain (January 24th, 2003, 5:27 am)

Well, at first glance, it seems technically do-able but aesthetically hard to get right, especially since one doesn't want the bg to distract from the actual content. The current bg looks busy enough without a profusion of little dots trickling down it.

What say I do the Matrix thing for the next issue, and leave the current cover alone (barring a little tweaking)?

Of course!

Semirrahge (January 24th, 2003, 3:37 pm)

Besides, it's not like I can MAKE you use my idea. :P

The site itself is pretty much in a constant state of flux, so... Yeah. Change it whenever.

Maybe we could get people like Fred Gallagher and Greg Martin to do guest arts for us? Hmm.... :)

Yeah :D

Narainsbrain (January 25th, 2003, 5:06 am)

That would be nice, wouldn't it... And maybe Greg Egan would do a guest story for us too =p

Now Cruise, gosh darn it, why did you have to go saying you liked the original better? Oh man... now what am I supposed to do? Everybody else seems to like it... Grrr. Guess I have to go play with opacity and try to hit some sort of compromise.

And I hope Siedhr will do me the favour of letting me know just what she hates about my circles. ;) Archimedes died 'cause of that, you know, he told the invading Roman soldier not to disturb his circles. Heh...

Next time I post a screenshot, it's going to be FINAL!


cruise (January 25th, 2003, 2:35 pm)

I just like circles more than lines...less "busy" and eye-straining :P

The circles reminded me of rain on glass, or something equally poetic...


Siedhr (January 25th, 2003, 5:35 pm)

well, i don't have anything against the circles themselves, just their combination with the lines. they don't look good, too busy and tiring to watch and they look like splats.

Right then

Narainsbrain (January 26th, 2003, 5:13 am)

Okay, the lines and extra fx are out... Photoshop does induce a strong tendency to make thing far busier than they need to be. =)

Unfortunately, now I have to go redo the circles, to take the blurriness out. *sigh* All in a day's work... :D

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